Adult content in Blue Skooma - Discuss

It appears to J'sarr that sexually based roleplay is on the rise, so to speak, in our guild. So this one thinks it's about time we had "the talk". ;-)

For the purpose of this discussion we will refer to forum based roleplay and in game roleplay. Guild chat is off limits to adult content and will remain that way.

I would like to hear the guild's thoughts on adult content in the guild. Let's hear your opinion.





Ok. Go.

I appreciate that the forums offer a place for the freedom to roleplay adult situations and mature content. I think that the occasional curse word should be okay in game, but that it is not the place for explicit or graphically violent material in consideration for our minors. This arrangement lets players continue to interact on their own terms without imposing unwelcome depictions on others.

In other words, I favor things as they are now.

I prefer the adult content in the forums. It's easier to hide certain things here, where in game, it's just out in the open with no way to really warn anyone. Obviously the adult stuff doesn't bother me, but I hope it doesn't bother anyone else here. I'd hate for anyone to feel uncomfortable.

LOLz at "the talk" :p

I think it is no different than in real life - some things are just better done in private (not to say it not fun in public either :roll: )

Adult RP in game should always be in Private Chat, once it gets past initial flirting I think, like OMG have you ever tried to RP even when someone is emoting that stuff in Say/Emote - so distracting LOL ... not mentioning any names *coughs*

Although there was a hilarious incident just the other day when someone MTd a private chat that was very explicit. So there is that.

On forums we have been adopting the Spoiler Feature/Hide-Show to help shield potential readers. With an MA18+ label on thread to warn, although I actually think that's more of a draw card... just saying ;-)

I would prefer having perhaps the RP forums only visible to registered members, rather than any Enjin user. Perhaps even you could set up a tag system that allows only people to view those threads if they choose and say they are over 18 or something. But that's possibly a lot of work to set up and monitor, so probably not feasible.

So overall I say hide and keep in private and if people that see it that shouldn't then at least they chose to.

EDIT : Cant help but notice the 'forum sex offenders" are the first to answer... cue Sumar hahaha

Lol at forum sex offenders. :p

Can that be an award? To warn everyone who the dirty ones are lol Haha

When I used to write 'Adult Content' I would use www.titanpad.com or something similar.

Come to think of it, I use Titanpad for most if not all of my communal writing - it's a lot easier to co-ordinate.

As to the forums, I don't, and have never seen any reason to screen the internet as though people <18yrs of age are not fully capable of using the Google. If they want to read porn, watch porn, have porn, be in porn, no amount of polite culture is going to stop or deter them and any 'user license agreement' is purely perfunctory legal-babble which, to this date, neither I nor anyone else has ever, or will ever read. The one exception I've seen was when a Mighty Mom tried suing StarArmy.com.

Keep it.

I think it would be pretty fun to have the private roleplay be referred to as you said "(i.e. you telling people you're screwing around, etc)." or just a simple joke "so how was she?" haha

Personally, I wouldn't mind it out in the open, I'd prolly do the same thing in game that I'd do IRL to my friends, if I "heard" people doing something, I'd prolly laugh and yell something to embarrass them :P

as for consideration for the minors... their parents chose to buy them an M rated game, either they're mature enough to handle it so their parents got them the game, their parents don't know what "Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB" means, or their parents screwed up and didn't even think to read the label. So long as its kept as "suggestive" in game and not hardcore smut, we should be fine in my opinion.

I'm agreeing with pretty much everyone being said above. The forum RP doesn't seem to be an issue because it's marked with a M18+. I've noticed a couple times during regular RP that some suggestive things have been said though.. maybe we need to just reiterate to everyone that things that go beyond flirting should be done in private messages. We don't want anyone to be scarred around here :P

I was blown away when I saw it. (That's a good thing actually!)

Coming from the very early days of RP in MMO's...it's been quite interesting and nice to see ERP go from the "dirty little secret" to something that's pretty commonly accepted. This is the first set of forums that I have seen that actually allowed and seemed to encourage the more intimate moments in a character lives. After all, those moments shape and drive them just as much as any other factor in their lives. Actions are quite often based off emotion. If you have no idea how your character will behave or respond on an emotional level, it makes it difficult to truly flesh out their personalities.

If used responsibly and for the purpose of character motivation I see nothing wrong with allowing that character to experience something so common in daily life. Tying emotion and events that shape how that character perceives love, jealousy, bitterness, intimacy, sexuality can only improve one's ability to roleplay that character, yes? So long as the line between IC and OOC can be kept and respected.

I have seen no irresponsible ERP myself, either on the boards or in game. (Granted my lunatic schedule means I rarely ever GET to RP with the group as evenings and weekends are the time I can play the least. So I may have missed something here or there!) All the posts are tagged as a warning. And my view has always been this: This is a game with a mature rating... It is a parent's responsibility to, if they are going to take the chance to buy a game for a child, understand the content of that game. We as adults playing this game are not doing it with the intent of babysitting the MANY wandering kids who are also playing. There is very little that anyone can do to truly keep kids from finding what they want online when it comes to sexual content. I know. I have a 14 year old son.

Obviously I think that sexual discussion doesn't really belong in the general guild chat channel. It tends to be distracting and not everyone wants to have it shoved in their face. There is an amount of respect one must have for their fellow guild mates. Though I find no issue with flirting or flirtatious behavior. It's fun and so long as doesn't become gratuitous can only serve strengthen bonds and friendships. (Hopefully, I have also seen it cause the occasional jealousy issue. But that tends to also be connected to the emotional maturity of those involved.) Probably best to keep it out of the IC channel too for similar reasons. It can be very distracting if others are trying to RP a different scenario only to have their conversation be scrolled off the chat window by a wall of moaning, squirming, and dirty talk. *winks*

As far as group RP, say in a tavern or other some such area where people are congregated... I do believe that yes, if something gets to the point where two people are really in to one another and it seems right and natural for the RP, they should find a private spot to explore one another's...finer points. *chuckles* Sitting on one's lap? Hugging them? Holding them close? Even a few kisses isn't a problem. We see it every day in almost every establishment we walk in to. Just know the line. If you wouldn't want to see it in a place where you were inhabiting in that moment, then do the courtesy to others. Sort of real world morals so to speak.

With all that said, I think sexuality can be just as important to our characters as any other aspect of their personality. We are playing a mature rated game. This is a mature guild that has always seemed to me to be advertised as much. I mean there was a whole section (The Companions) who were basically consorts and prostitutes of a form, yes?

Just be responsible and respectful about it. it's art...just like any other kind of written word. It's when you stop treating it like art and start treating it like something dirty and morally wrong it becomes nothing more than smut. And that's sad.

Anyway obviously these are just my opinions. *smiles and bows her head* I hope they didn't upset anyone. It was not my intention.

Something to consider is that graphic threads tend to deter some potenial rp members, especially when they look at our site and realize that the most active forum rps are (Ma18+ posts hidden). Just being honest when I say this, but it kind of makes us look like pervs, lol. I'm all for allowing members to rp however they please, but I think in the interest of recruitment we might want to either hide those threads or find a more discreet place for such rp.

I think you make a good point, Ma'Zha. If there was a section of the Stories boards that required a simple password, then members could request the password if they had interest in seeing / participating in that content.

Perhaps we should visit the Feedback forum.

I like this idea.

That way, people who have no interest in it aren't even effected by it. Nor do they have to view it. I'm sure it would cut down on the number of complaints (If there were to be any) and help to not shock new members who aren't really used to that sort of thing.

I personally do not feel that the stigma against sex is necessary. That is why it is something I am not ashamed of talking about openly.

However, I do realize that the topic of sex makes many people uncomfortable and so I have always asked that any explicit content be kept to IM's in-game and clearly marked if posted to the forums. That way if you don't want to see it, you don't have to.

On the concern of sexual forum RP hurting recruitment: I am fine with that. It is almost always better to be transparent rather than appeal to opinion on the basis of a lie. This is why officer forums and meetings are public too. I think anyone that roleplays in our guild regularly knows that there is much more to it than erotic role play.

Now this is one of the markings of a real guild. Mature discussion over a mature subject.

On that note, everyone who has commented here has made a valid point, many of which--if not all--I agree with. In my experience, I have had my fair share of ERP moments both within a game such as ESO and over forums. I have been on both sides of a M/F pairing (I am male, by the way, for those who have not heard me over TS; Sarena has just been an ongoing ES project since Morrowind), and I feel it has made me a little more understanding of people when it comes to the topic of sex and all that it entails.

Even though it hasn't been a month, I've noticed that BSC is still a popular guild; I see new names at least on the forums almost daily. After all, the weekly auction does tend to grab people in some way. I still want to see us continue down the road we're on now, and if it is the slightly-expanding erotica holding us back, I feel it is not our fault, but the fault of the outsiders who happen across it for not understanding that sex and relationships are as much a part of ESO life as it is in the real world. As Alyssia put it before, it builds character just like anything else we encounter. If someone views us negatively because of something so common in today's society, that doesn't make us immature but them instead, and immature people really have no place amongst a community within an M-rated game exploring similar subjects as the game itself. We have gay elves for crying out loud (quest in Greenshade, I believe), and even the potential for cross-racial lesbianism (quest hub in Rivenspire).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we do what we do because we respect and understand it and the people who are doing it, and no one's opinions of us seem to be changing that anytime soon as long as we don't stoop to their levels of immaturity themselves.

Ma'Zha Dawnbringer wrote

Something to consider is that graphic threads tend to deter some potenial RP members, especially when they look at our site and realize that the most active forum rps are (MA18+ posts hidden). Just being honest when I say this, but it kind of makes us look like pervs, lol. I'm all for allowing members to RP however they please, but I think in the interest of recruitment we might want to either hide those threads or find a more discreet place for such RP.

Agreed, it is simply enough to make that particular forum not view able to the general public, only full members for example. But I have no problem either way personally.

I want to add I actually prefer forum RP for this kind of thing than live in game. Being a female behind the character, it often does feel awkward but I keep making these tarty characters LOL - What is with that?

My Suggestions
Forums - A section on the forums for mature posts. Bonus: it keeps all of the naughty business where it is easily avoided and clearly labeled without ‘polluting’ things for those who wish to avoid it. Con: Someone has to be available to moderate the board, and move threads that are getting a bit hot when it happens quite innocently.
Teamspeak – light PG13 for little ears.
Guild Chat (OOC) – be considerate. If you are bothering someone, lighten up. If you aren’t, be yourself.
Chat (IC channels, Chat and Zone) – Move it to private if it is PG13+

My Spiel
I write fiction. I am an author. I own ISBN numbers to 2 novels now, which one day will dot the shelves of your local public library, the book mobile, and a Barnes and Noble. Anyone with a library card or a 10-dollar bill will be able to read my novels. They do not come with a warning label other than “Fiction”. Those books are not legally restricted to 18+ audiences. This is not a drug, or liquor, nor is it hardcore porn.

I write realism. Most of what I write is relationship drama. Few relationships out there are platonic. Ever since humans appeared on this rock (whatever your belief system) we have been screwing one another for our various motivations. Sex is one of the greatest driving forces in relationships; it is also not the only one.

I write sex. Most of the time I write it in detail. Why? Because I like extreme depth of character. Little exposes the vulnerabilities, the inner person, their weaknesses and strengths than sex. If someone wants to read it to get all hot and bothered, sure, why not. Enjoy. But know that is not why I do it.

I write more than sex. I am uncomfortable with a recent comment by a guild mate which inferred as much. This is what happens when you ‘air’ your character’s physical relationships in a public fashion. Thus, I must accept this, and be cool with it. I am.

I write for enjoyment. Little thrills me more than being able to share my characters and stories with others. That is what writing is about. I write them here to share them with you, because there are many here who have expressed an interest in knowing more about them. That is writing.

How does this pertain to the guild? I bought a “Mature” rating game. It is not too hot in this kitchen for me. I would personally like to be able to drop the occasional F-bomb in guild chat too. Teamspeak, sure, I understand censuring that. Some people have kids who can over-hear what mommy and daddy are listening to.

I understand that this is a sensitive matter for some. I am capable of empathy. But I censure myself all day long, working in education. I want to come home, kick off my shoes, strip off the blinders, and enjoy my show.

To those who are upset by seeing this kind of thing in the open I say the following. You bought a “Mature” rating game. So did I. Let me play. I am not stopping you.

~Towim, Sumar's playerthing

LOL and the other "sex offender"finally speaks!!! :lol: bit late Sumar, but you do love a good entrance (haha puny)

Like I could keep my nose out of this question lol. Posted. ;)

I find it sad honestly, that people become more offended by sexual content than they ever have over violence, gore, torture, defilement of the dead. But when people begin writing about a loving relationship between people...so many folks scatter with their hands over their eyes and ears looking for their nearest religious establishment to wash their eyeballs out with borax. =p

*chuckles and shrugs*

Ri'sari wrote

I personally do not feel that the stigma against sex is necessary. That is why it is something I am not ashamed of talking about openly.

This.

As a deep thinker, and as a general rule with respect to modern philosophy, I very publicly scorn polite society for doing such base and detestable things as stifling creativity in the name of politeness. It shows a marked resistance to change, to personal development, and also a distinct and disgusting supposition that such things are dangerous.

Lilly-livered anti-intellectual cowards.

Stormwolf wrote

I find it sad honestly, that people become more offended by sexual content than they ever have over violence, gore, torture, defilement of the dead. But when people begin writing about a loving relationship between people...so many folks scatter with their hands over their eyes and ears looking for their nearest religious establishment to wash their eyeballs out with borax. =p

This also.

When I play characters, they sometimes end up having sex lives. I don't typically write those out, as a general rule of thumb, because I've been writing that sort of smut for so long I no longer get a whole lot out of it. It's also something I'm not really eager to explain to my girlfriend. I'm sure other people have other reasons for and against, but I typically let my characters have it out 'behind the curtain' unless the circumstances are extremely special and don't typically write smut for smut's sake. I allude to their sex lives in roleplay when it is appropriate, and they all have reasonably healthy sex drives and are open for 'romancing'.

Cutting romance out of a story just because of politeness is silly; this is the internet. I see no problem with some made-up characters getting their rocks off for the sake of plot, story, or character development, because it's nice to make stories feel real and sex is a part of life - sometimes a huge part of it depending on the person(s) involved.

We spoke about this in the officer chat and if I recall we decided there is no cause to pursue any regulation further than the current self-policing which seems to be working fine.

</rant>

All good responses so far. Great stuff. I can see this a passionate topic.

There are many points made here, which I'll get to soon, but there is one very important point that has not been really been touched on yet. Perhaps the most important point of this topic for a RP guild. J'sarr is playing the devils advocate here. But before anyone gets upset, there's no plans in place to curb people's RP styles or anything like that.

The atmosphere created by heavily suggestive RP in the game.

Flirting and heavily suggestive RP is all fine and well, but consider what it means to others. It's a very exclusive form of RP, as in, it excludes those not involved. A member rocks up to the common RP area where a bunch of guildies are hanging out only to find the guildies are getting (or attempting to get) into each others pants. If this member wants to RP, they will not find it easy in that situation as it is not conducive to including others.

This member also may feel uncomfortable around such suggestive RP. Do they dislike sex? Are they offended by adult themes? No. It's likely to be your adult themes they are uncomfortable with. You may not be as sexy to everyone as you think you are! It's great fun if you're involved, but from the outside it can be awkward and boring.

I've spoken to people who feel this way, and I've seen it happen myself a few times now. Which is why I want to discuss it openly in the general forum, not just with the officers.

So what is the solution? In my mind it could be something along these lines... If you want to hangout to flirt, fuck, etc, perhaps be mindful of the atmosphere it creates and don't get too carried away in the moment. Remember that we want to promote RP in the guild and not stifle it. If you're occupying a regular guild RP location then keep in mind that everyone would like to join in the RP and they may not be as horny as you are right now.

Thoughts? Comments? :)

(For the record, we're not "big government" lol.. but good rant. :P)

I think it has a place outside of open roleplay, meaning it is done in an out of the way place between those who are doing the smut roleplay. Also I like how it is handled on our forums in a special thread that is clearly marked so those who do not wish to read can avoid it. My personal taste is to RP sex to a point and then go with stylish innuendo. I have no interest in actual graphic sex roleplay but that is just my opinion.

@ J'sarr...


That is another reason why I prefer forum RP personally.

Just because Sylva & Sumar are sitting together in game I dont want people to natural assume that is what we are doing, they will often seclude themselves naturally for no reason other than to be secretive about what they talk about.

So I can make a very public: As far as Sylva & Sumar are concerned you do not have to fear you are interrupting anything! All that stuff is RPd elsewhere and can even go away from BS forums to another site with no issues on my part whatsoever if people want that. (but that is not the general impression I get).

It would be awkward for me to ever consider ERP in game, without a huge amount of trust in the other party and how they handle that IRL. I have a male character in the first place to avoid unwanted guy issues with my female characters, so if my characters flirt with yours, Female or Male you are very, very, extremely unlikely to get me to ERP - do not be offended it is me and my issue not you/your character. However I would more likely take it onto a forum RP.... maybe. Or just as easily do a "fade to black". The word consensual comes to mind - consensual ERP lol Remember no, means no! :|

My fiction used to be all fade to black until I realized I was too uncomfortable with the subject and challenged myself to do it and so some of my FanFics took on a smutty aspect. M/M pairing was something I hadnt done ever, forget that it is inter-racial using a freakin cat person. The Sumar thing has been a huge challenge, but a good one for me and one that I have and am enjoying.

It has also been interesting to see/hear everyone's point of view etc. so Im glad the topic has been raised :lol:

Would you be more startled walking in on your child watching a gory horror film, or a pornographic snippet? Riddle me that.

The content that the discussion of this subject unpacks is colossal in measure, but I'm going to try and be brief (I'll likely fail). My statement will be largely ground in a quote from one of my favored psycology books, here:




The ultimate point here that the author will make (in both the cases of sex and killing) is that by severing ourselves from something so essential as sex, and perverting it beyond what is human, we inadvertently cause an immense sociological and psychological rift that winds up creating an issue of paramount by comparison.

If you need a better example, take under aged drinking; the forbidden fruit concept: The norm of society - at least in the United States (my apologies to others, whom to which this does not apply) - is that drinking under the legally posted age is untolerable (with the exception of outliers). What has this done? It has pushed it underground. Now kids drink in abandon homes, away from the safety of supervision, without any experience in the matter, without any careful introduction. And above that, it is an obsession. Drinking isn't something you do over a nice meal, you do it to binge. You do it to get turnt out of your cage.

So where am I going with this? I will guarantee you, one hundred times over, that if you role play, you will encounter erotic role play. There is absolutely no doubt about it. You know it is going on, you know where to find it, and I am willing to bet (even if you have not participated in it) someone has approached you with that intent. Don't you dare try to speak otherwise.

The absolute wrong thing to do in this matter is to try and remove it entirely, or furthermore, to pervert it. Firsthand, this was my experience as a young man. The role play communities I participated in hunted erotic role play like a witch, and so it bred like wildfire underground. I came into the world of role play absolutely naïve to the idea of erotic role play, and it hit me like a ton of bricks. Encountering that can be an incredible shock. Especially so when you have no guidance. Especially when you have no one to turn to without abashment and ask what this is. I hadn't even had sex in real life by that point. Citing the earlier quote, I would submit that this is the wrong sort of environment to have this encounter happen in.

Now, with the premise of my position established, I think we can be healthy about our response. Nothing that clips the buds, nor lets the plant grow wild. I have to commend the guild leadership, as thus far, that has been the direction of things. I am impressed. We haven't settled on a material conclusion though; there still seem to be a few people concerned about onlookers, or wandering adolescents. So now, in the wonderful world of lawyers, we have these brilliant things called disclaimers. You have heard of them, I assure you. At most, my recommendation would be to put a disclaimer on said forum that states the following: (i)There is ERP (erotic role play) in the following forum thread, (ii) This is what ERP (erotic role play) is, (iii) By federal law, you must be 18+. (All in greater detail, of course.) I am not an Enjin guru, but I recall this being a possibility. If we must further it, present forum accessee with the following questions: Do you understand this? Do you have any questions? No? Alright, check this box and continue at your discretion. That way, we have appropriate moderation over this realm of erotic role play, but we haven't made it into something obtuse. Keep it in the light, as we have been doing.

This issue is something that all young guilds face. The first thoughts on are minds are always what colour should the guild tabard be? or what should I name the guild ranks?, but this one sneaks up quick, and it sneaks up in force. Check the box and let's drive on.

LOL my female characters got hit on for ERP when they werent anywhere near RP LOL in SWTOR

I'm not being argumentative, but just bringing up points and thoughts as I see, them.

I dont feel the need to censor many things from adults, because seriously if they click on something that says MA18+ rated or watches something like that on TV and then gets all upset they are just stupid. Ratings are there to guide you to content nothing more.

Disclaimers wouldn't hurt on one hand, but having one is actually really making a claim that the content shouldn't be read and leaves you open to being sued... by the lawyer that wrote that disclaimer ... funny that :roll:

I prefer to make a Claimer: you can read if you choose to, I warned you first - if you get offended then go auhway. (The fire is hot - don't touch. Child touches...)

Minors - If young people are wandering the internet unsupervised they only have to hit up GOOGLE with a word or two and they can access anything they want pictures, literature, freaking Wikipedia has any topic you seek knowledge about. Try it for yourself. So I teach my kids about everything in the context is belongs in so they are mature enough to handle the internet. Oh yea they still do the wrong thing, see the wrong thing. But life happens and you cant cotton wool everything up. (I'm a big fan of taking caution labels off stuff so stupid will take care of itself ;-) ) Google has no warnings like the images you may view may scar you forever, nor does the Wiki have disclaimers. Youtube makes an effort to restrict & Deviantart, blogs etc.

So as a courtesy I always advise what is in here, sometimes I give a summary of the types of stuff that may be in there in the case of my FanFics so people can walk away if they choose.

Steps will be taken though to at least limit the viewing of these threads on the Forums by Site Members Only after today's Officer Meeting and discussion.

1. To NOT draw people that may solely be looking to just ERP - like cheap thrills or unsavory types.
2. To NOTpotentially drive away potential recruits because they get the wrong impression we are a bunch of perverts because the threads containing this stuff has ridiculous hit counts. LOL Once they are in and get to know us a bit and see it is only 4 people at this point out of 340 doing this so they will be UNDAUNTED! by the extreme minority LOL sorry couldnt resist.

Tryynity wrote

Disclaimers wouldn't hurt on one hand, but having one is actually really making a claim that the content shouldn't be read and leaves you open to being sued... by the lawyer that wrote that disclaimer ... funny that :roll:

I think you are missing the concept of a disclaimer entirely: A disclaimer is provided to disavow any further responsibility and avert the possibility of being sued completely. Not the other way around, as you see it. They don't put disclaimers on medicine so that when you overdose, you can sue them. Why would they, if that were the case? I'd leave the bottle stark blank if that were the way the rules worked. Not even a label.

Believe it or not, the owner(s) and subscriber(s) to these forums is/are legally responsible for the content of this site. Just like if you post something to Facebook: sure, you can lose you job over it, but you can also get called into court. You wouldn't get away with brandishing illicit material there, you won't here. We are responsible for the regulation of it. Hence, a disclaimer is only a prudent measure, regardless of your stance on the issue.

That is an extreme case, but lets take a realistic one: An innocent minor wanders into these forums and uncovers these mature threads, for which he develops a fondness for. Parents find out, and they are outraged and vengeful. They contact Enjin (providing they find an avenue to do that), and our site could be shut down by our own host. There, an argument that the threads were adequately and glaringly labeled as well as access required individual volition, goes a long ways in saving your skin. Observe that box you check every time you jump on an adult site, or make a regular download.

[X] I acknowledge that I have read the above terms and conditions and...

Good discussion. We discussed this at length during the officer meeting.

These two things will stay the same:

1. Keep ERP to IMs in-game.
2. Do not say anything sexually explicit in guild chat.

NSFW label will be available for threads.

I try to RP how I would act/say in real life. Now I there were two times were a making out RP might have gotten to be a bit too much in game, so that stopped, I spoke with the person and we agreed to make the post here on the forums, that way anyone that wants to read it, can. And people can avoid it if they want to. Now the flirting and suggestive comments in game can definitely be toned down, and I thought it had been but maybe I'm wrong and need to pay more attention.

But anyway, i agree that ERP can show up pretty much anywhere. I use to play a MySpace game that was rated e for everyone and was shocked by all the ERP there. So yeah, its pretty common.

But i dont want people to think they cant rp with me unless its erp, no no, i welcome anyone to rp with me in game or on forums.

Loyid wrote

Tryynity wrote

Disclaimers wouldn't hurt on one hand, but having one is actually really making a claim that the content shouldn't be read and leaves you open to being sued... by the lawyer that wrote that disclaimer ... funny that :roll:

I think you are missing the concept of a disclaimer entirely: A disclaimer is provided to disavow any further responsibility and avert the possibility of being sued completely. Not the other way around, as you see it. They don't put disclaimers on medicine so that when you overdose, you can sue them. Why would they, if that were the case? I'd leave the bottle stark blank if that were the way the rules worked. Not even a label.


[X] I acknowledge that I have read the above terms and conditions and...

It might be different where you live, but seriously you can sign an accident waiver here and still sue if you are injured. Either way if someone wants to sue you and they find a lawyer to do it - not hard. You will get sued. Waivers, disclaimers are not worth the paper it is written on, it can however lower you insurance premiums when you jump through certain hoops - dont drink the coolaid :dizzy:

Again if GOOGLE images, FB, and Wiki arent worried about being sued for not having a disclaimer on everything and secret passwords for viewing the stuff it is reasonable to assume we are reasonably safe. You can technically be sued for every picture of a person in it that you upload via instagram if you don't have their permission.

Again tell me why we need poison labels on stuff? Again, take them off and let stupid take care of itself LOL sorry. I hate that crap.

It is still a good point though Loyid, don't get me wrong.

Loyid wrote

Tryynity wrote

Disclaimers wouldn't hurt on one hand, but having one is actually really making a claim that the content shouldn't be read and leaves you open to being sued... by the lawyer that wrote that disclaimer ... funny that :roll:

I think you are missing the concept of a disclaimer entirely: A disclaimer is provided to disavow any further responsibility and avert the possibility of being sued completely.

It is sick and wrong that a disclaimer is even necessary.

Legally speaking, I'm sure you're right. But it seems to me as though going so far as to put a disclaimer on our application could be counter-productive. We are not a porn site; nor are we a guild that specializes in this sort of thing. Even a cursory glance over our forums, which are all open to the public, shows that the weight of normal RP far outscales the ERP, and the ERP as Ri'sari mentions is already clearly labeled.

Adult content. 18+.

If your child has not or can not read these things, but somehow has the mental acuity to actually jack his teeny-tiny dick to a couple of people WRITING porn when the internet is FULL of VERY VISUAL stimulation, your child has a very specific mental retardation called 'I do what I want'. Woe to him (or her).

A disclaimer is overkill, the measures in place are sufficient, and anything further could be counter-intuitive with recruiting. "Jumping at shadows" comes to mind, as it seems we've reflexively sought a solution to a problem that does not observably exist. A concern was raised; not a complaint, not a lawsuit, not a fire beneath our asses by Enjin.

Loyid was just suggesting it lightly, Jvani - not saying we need one. They are pro and if you go back to the original post they had a fair chunk supporting your view precisely. It was me that chimed in with the anti disclaimer rant just coz I have cant help myself LOL

This topic has been responded to and sorted today in Officer Meeting and to be honest I dont think it was a big deal in the first place LOL just a topic for discussion.

I will say there was a case where an 11 year old was viewing child porn and has become US's youngest sex offender, because the FBI or whoever traced his IP or something. So it does happen, but it will happen if you leave your child unattended and free to roam as they please on the internet. So it really comes back on the parent to some degree IMHO .

Go google something now and see what you get - you would be surprised.... or maybe not ;-) if you been around a bit LOL

Pornographic material is as easy to find in every day life as sliced bread. Kids nowadays have sexual imagery thrown at them like a speed ball being shot out of a cannon. It's not like finding dad's magazines from the 50's beneath the mattress or mom's dime store romance novels hidden behind all the other books. It's everywhere. Our advertising. Our packaging. Our television. And need I even mention the internet? All these stylized images can (and do) send some really messed up messages to today's youth about what sex and sexuality is all about.

Here's what young people don't get a lot of: An example of a loving, intimate relationship.

That's not to say that all RP'd relationships are...loving or even intimate. But I find they tend to reflect more of a real world attitude than the media would have us see. Relationships happen and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. But I find that many of the in game relationships and consequential RP can give a more positive outlook on sex in general.

Some people do it for character development. Some people do it because it's a fun little side diversion. Some people do it because they get off on it. (More power to those who do it for that, I find it entirely more classy than someone sittin' in front of a screen watching a bull of a man objectify some woman by calling her names and forcing her into acts that are at the least somewhat degrading...and at the most....well...)

I truly appreciate this conversation. And I also appreciate what the leadership has decided. It's time that that side of RP not be hidden in the shadows out of shame any longer. I saw what RP life was like in the "dark ages"...when people were reviled for that. It was witch hunts! Horrible people would actually sneak around trying to catch others in the act and then make a huge show about shaming them both in game and on game boards. They were treated like pariahs. I watched people...good people...be tortured over it. Forced to stop playing the games they loved because they had the audacity to roleplay intimacy with someone else. There were even people who would go out and set other people up as a joke and then completely destroy their RP reputation. It was disgusting. And it really messed up some people's lives.

I am ultimately thankful that we no longer live in that era. That I've been able to see maturity come to gaming and RP.

It saddens me my schedule does not allow me much time to RP with you all. I see a wealth of mature, interesting, and intelligent people gathered here who have been able to walk away from those pre-conceived notions of what it means when a person engages in ERP.

Thank you for allowing me to be a member of this fine guild.

This is the first time I've ever participated in ERP. Its very interesting and I was really shy about it at first, but i get more comfortable with each page. I know that some people are not going to like it or just think of it as porn lol but to me its sbout letying the characters grow and evolve. And if you read the milo & lucrezia thread, you'll see that its not all smut, theres a lot of talking and getting to know each other, very realistic when two people are starting to see each other.

And Aly, any time you see me online and want to chat or rp, in game or on here, just let me know. I really like your character, she's a lot of fun. And i am enjoying the stories you write about her. :)

Thank you dear. *smiles* I've been enjoying your writing as well. And I think the story that you and Milo have created is lovely! For a "first timer" you have been writing wonderfully! Do keep doing so!

This guild is full of very talented writers and RPers. It's very refreshing.

I agree with the above post by Ma'Zha in that it becomes something we are known for and may deter some REAL good RPrs from joining us in the first place because lets be honest - when has a scheduled not spawned an offshoot of "adult content" after the main affair is over? I mean its like swingers party where everyone pairs off after to go to their private rooms.. and some not so private. But i know when to clear out of the area for the after party has obviously begun.

I personally don't partake because
1. i need a really good reason for my character to have any "sexual" encounter (planned offspring) for me to consider it.
2. Its just sexting with avatars to me....

Enjoy the sex rp guys but PLEASE - do it because thats what is in your story line ....not just because YOU are feeling horny tonight - it gets akward.

I don't think anyone will like what I am about to type. I am fine with that. Because honestly, I don't care. You asked for opinions. I'm going to give you all of mine.

1. Anyone we lose because of our content, shouldn't have been here in the first place.

Why- The first post in your character sheets is a bunch of prostitutes and their bios. Anyone joining this guild without checking that shouldn't be allowed in on the grounds they are ignorant. In my experience people that judge on sexuality, for any reason, generally are judgmental and hurtful in other areas and less flexible. Not people you want in improv style RPing which this guild is built around.

2. You can have whatever rules you want, whatever contracts you want, whatever laws you want. People are going to do it despite them.

Why- Humans are capable liars with wants and desires. Welcome to reality.

3. The legal issues are of no matter really.

Why- Because everyone is personally responsible for their actions. A lot of people will toss blame around and not look at themselves when something bad happens. You mess up, it's on you.

4. What should we do about it?

Answer- Nothing we haven't already done, nothing that hasn't been smart, common rules for the past TEN YEARS of MMO Rping. (Group/whisper past PG-13 stuff, forum fun with warnings.)

Why- You don't want to ERP, don't. If someone asks you, then decline them. They keep pestering, contact an officer. But, they shouldn't have to stop doing their flirting/ERPing because you're above it WHILE being in a guild with hookers and smugglers and drugs. /golfclap.

5. What if we want to ERP in Emotes?

Answer- Fuck you. No. (Maybe use a dungeon)

Why- Because a child can Google all the porn they want. YOU can control the things you do in public, asshole.

6. What about the Minors?

Answer- This is a mature game. They take the risk exposing themselves. If we discover them in this guild they should be removed at once without regret.

Why- Because they endanger the lives of the adults that may flirt/erp with them. This is a mature game and forum, we should ask and confirm each person is 18+ as their mere presence puts us all at risk.

The last thing I am going to say, is that I believe it is part of my sexuality as a person and I am proud of it. Because I am very good at it, it's a source of pride for me. I am respectful of all the players behind the toons wishes' when I RP with them, as a personal rule. But, if you didn't know what you were getting into joining BSC, that's not our fault.

I'm not innocent of some of the pains ERP can cause, I have a jealous heart myself. But people like me understand it is how you conduct yourself. Recognizing you're not perfect, making up for mistakes and taking it OOC when things cross lines. All fair things Rp'ers should be familiar with.

~ Sycon Dai Drek'Tai
Thirteen years experience, having this exact conversation.

A lot of people here are writers and one thing about writing erotica is stepping out of your comfort zone and testing yourself. And I think Sylvaswift said it best when she said ERP is like playing chess. It's a game, a playful little challenge to another person (or persons). I doubt everyone that ERP's is doing it because they are horny at the moment. lol Even some well known popular authors have been known to write erotica to test themselves in some way.

And all that I've seen posted on here has been relevant to the story they are telling. It's all about expanding that story and growing your characters. I'm sorry if some people don't like it, but the warnings are there for that reason and they can choose to just not read it.

((And I'm not trying to argue or sound preachy! Just stating my opinion is all. :) ))

Gallant wrote

It is sick and wrong that a disclaimer is even necessary.

I will admit that I got further down the road of legalese and jurisprudence than I intended. That was largely a product of counter responding to another post. I was not trying to concoct an impending legal crisis, nor escalate the discussion, merely provide some conceptual material to the discussion. The whole reason I got into law was to fight this sort of nonsense on the side of criminal law. Everyone starts as an idealist, right?

Tryynity wrote

Again tell me why we need poison labels on stuff?.

I agree with you. Give people the right to fail.

Anyways, my suggestion was not so much to inject this addition of another disclaimer to the website application process, but instead, just make it a small box you check prior to entering said posts: You are about to enter thread with mature sexual content. This is what we mean by that. Are you adult enough to handle that? It doesn't have to be anything overly restrictive. It would demand very little effort, and exact only the most necessary regulation.

My whole motive behind that is not to apply more stringent restrictions to the liberty of our forum, but rather to provide better road signs for crummy or young drivers. The labels are an adequate road sign to those whom understand them. A detailed disclaimer would just increase the accuracy of that road sign and aid those whom are perhaps a little naïve. "MA 18+" is an ambiguous scope; It could be labeled so for any measure of reasons from violent content, profane language, or erotica. Increasing the accuracy would allow those sensitive persons to know what they are getting into, as well as give others (like myself) a better way to test the waters before diving in.

Vinavia Orchaleum wrote

Enjoy the sex rp guys but PLEASE - do it because that's what is in your story line ....not just because YOU are feeling horny tonight - it gets akward.

@Vinavia LOL you play games because you are bored right? I see no problem really in ERP either if both are cool with that. Sex & touch is a need like eating, sleeping, drinking and being loved. I seriously would rather consensual ERPing anywhere to be happening than random sex IRL - ERP is safer for one, with far less complications.

Of course if your character is being hit up by Randy characters all the time I can understand there would be stress. As a female who chooses to play males to avoid that constant attention.... and I make a male character that continually hits up females for sex *sighs* ok but at least you know it is him and not me now since my forum wide confession haha

So if that is what you are saying or experiencing, let us know because that is a very valid concern and would need to be looked at. But i havent seent that - unless you count Sylva :|

Like I've said for me it is a trust thing and I doubt I would ever live ERP with another character anyway i.e. in chat. my libido would not play a part in that any more than IRL.

One question Loyid, do young drivers get their permits without knowing what the road signs mean in the first place?

Of course not.

We should not have to cater to the weak and the ignorant. This guild is based on drug smugglers, prostitutes and business. Anyone that doesn't expect sexual content is a deluded fool. Anyone that joined thinking that others would care about their real life morals and ethics (in regards to ERP at least) is a deluded fool.

If someone doesn't want to see content of that nature or needs a more clear warning about it, they should go play Animal Jam with the other kids. Because that is the level of attention they obviously operate under.

Also I would like to point out starting that second part with "I agree with you. Give people the right to fail." makes everything you state afterward fairly close to hypocritical. Not quite but almost.

I apologize if I offend you, but I have to put some reality into this conversation. Everything you wrote, you're perfectly capable of doing without any changes. You know the Alt code for that ï after all. So I know you know enough.

We should not have to cater to the weak and the ignorant.

You do realize you're talking about an mmo, right? Where the average iq of players is somewhere between sucking on a doorknob and thinking there is an "I" in team. We do not need to cater to the "weak and ignorant" but we do need to consider that, if we want the guild to flourish, we cannot exclude them either. My primary concern is not having such content in the guild, but portraying the guild in a way that does not make us look like a bunch of perverted nerds who sit in their basement rubbing one out as if that's all we do in the guild.

This guild is based on drug smugglers, prostitutes and business. Anyone that doesn't expect sexual content is a deluded fool. Anyone that joined thinking that others would care about their real life morals and ethics (in regards to ERP at least) is a deluded fool.

This statement simply proves that you have not been paying attention to the forums in regards to the future we're hoping for the guild, and by such forfeits your right to comment about it. If you've been paying attention you would know that we're trying to make the guild more neutral so we can include those rp-ers out there who are not evil or corrupt in nature. We want to be able to include members who don't want to be drug dealers, prostitutes, or entrepreneurs and if we did not care about rl morals we would not care about these members nor would we bother trying to include them into the guild.

I keep seeing posts about how easy it is for kids to get their hands on pornographic material, but to be honest, all that really comes down to is people justifying doing something by saying "everyone else does it". I guarantee you that if someone made the same arguement about weapons or illegal drugs like meth or cocaine, the overall opinion would be far different. If a parent gives their child methamphetamine just because their kid could get it from someone else down the street does not mean they are not legally responsible for their actions if they say "we only gave it to him because he might've gotten it from someone else".

I have absolutely nothing wrong with ERP, but I'm looking at this objectively in regards to guild recruitment and expansion rather than personal desire to or not to ERP. Whether you like it or not, people judge a society based on what they see of it, and that is what we are. As a guild, especially one who is attempting to grow and expand both in forums and in game, we are a society. What people see in our forums is what they use to base their opinions of us as a guild before joining, and how people see us as a group decides how the guild turns out when it is all said and done. If we turn away more rp members because they don't want to join a guild where the forums consist of a bunch of ERP threads, and recruit more members who want ERP, then the guild is going to become an ERP focused guild.

In regards to dislcaimers, I've read the opinions on them and I honestly don't see what people are complaining about. Disclaimers do not tell people "not to do", but rather tell them "do not do unless". Having a disclaimer on your post is not going to stop people from reading your post, but it will be encouraging for potential members who see the disclaimers and think "they seem to invite this content, but they're also responsible about it."

I do not wish to do away with ERP, I just want to find a means of telling potential members that we have it in a way that they realize we welcome ERP, but we are not ERP focused, especially on the forums.

Edit*

Looked at the RP forums and realized that 5/11 of the rp threads in that forum are Ma18+ now, which only proves that ERP is becoming more popular in the guild. More of these threads are going to pop up as the game goes, so you have to consider this when you look to the guild's future. A few weeks ago there were no ERP threads, and now almost half the rp threads are ERP and in a few more weeks, unless more non rp threads pop up, the number of ERP threads will outnumber the non ERP threads. Once this happens, it will be harder and harder to recruit members who are not ERP-ers.

I've been paying close attention to everything written in this forum, I read every single character sheet the first day and most posts except for the mature ones since. I know what your plans are and what your reasons are.

By weak and ignorant, I meant people that don't figure out what they are getting into before they get into it. But, good job insulting people broadly within the guild and the game. It's good to know what you think of the people around you. I prefer brass doorknobs myself.

The second thing you quoted, I didn't state that you didn't care, I stated that directed towards someone who would join believing that anyone should care. As a leader, of course you care or the thread wouldn't exist. That doesn't mean one persons morals are any better than the next, and rules shouldn't be based on a minority unless they need protecting. This minority can protect themselves by not reading or clicking something.

All I am saying, is with your actions and choices you've done enough. Moving the mature stuff to it's own place is a great idea. So is keeping chats clean and cleaning up our image. But, wrapping the guild in bubble wrap and taking away our steak knives needs to be challenged from time to time. You might not see why this is important but I do.

The only thing I would add is booting Minors entirely for the adults safety. Because any of this content, they can just post on, and everyone else in the forum is suddenly guilty of a crime. A serious one. A life altering one.

I don't know about you, but my state teaching certificate keeps me fed. I'd like not to lose it. But, You don't see me worrying too much, because I conduct myself as I should. So, sure, take it off the forefront of our guild. But, people who join will quickly discover they will have a bad time if they are prudes anyway.

But, good job insulting people broadly within the guild and the game. It's good to know what you think of the people around you. I prefer brass doorknobs myself.

Anyone who has played an mmo for an exptended period of time knows that the average player is often times either too lazy or too incapable to handle hard gameplay. Hence the reason games like FFXIV and Dark Souls 2 are getting progressively easier with every new patch. Even Zenimax has jumpd onto this bandwagon by nerfing veteran zones to the point that I'm soloing them after hearing about how hard they were. I judge players based on what I see of them, but I don't ignore facts in this regard either. Sad to say, and I really do hate myself for thinking this way, but I go into every dungeon with the expectation that my party is going to suck for multiple reasons. 1) Not disappointed when they do and pleasantly surprised when they dont. 2) After playing mmos for a decade now, I know that the common trend is to charge in, die, then blame the healer rather than try to figure out what went wrong. 3) ESO strongly discourages teamwork in pve, then expects players to be able to function as a team when it comes to dungeons. I have nothing against guildies. Fact is, the whole website application process tends to weed out the lazy and incompetent so in my eyes at least, anyone who becomes a full member is automatically respected.

As I've said in both my previous posts, I have no desire to exclude such content from the forums. I'm not going to requote myself for a third time, I think I've pretty well made my goals clear, and I don't want to sound like I'm singling you out by quoting you again, but I want to reply to this one as well.

The only thing I would add is booting Minors entirely for the adults safety. Because any of this content, they can just post on, and everyone else in the forum is suddenly guilty of a crime. A serious one. A life altering one.

I got a pretty good laugh at that, so thumbs up on ironic satire. The only real issue with this statement is that it is completely false. For starts, the ones held responsible will be the posters and the forum administrators (if the problem is not dealt with properly), not the entire forum community unless it reaches the point that the majority of the community is at fault or the crude posts are permitted to flourish enough to catch the eye of someone upstairs and they see that the majority of the community has become involved in a negative way. Noone is going to be affected in a life altering way unless they have actively participated in a punishable crime, such as child pornography or something equally offensive and illegal and even then, those who were not involved will suffer little more than the forums being shut down.

"18 U.S.C. § 1470: Transfer of obscene material to minors

According to 18 U.S.C. § 1470, using the mail or any means of interstate or foreign
commerce to knowingly or unknowingly transfer obscene material to an individual under the age of 16 is punishable by not more than 10 years of imprisonment and a fine, or both.

A review of federal appeals cases found three statutory challenges to convictions or
indictments under this section of the code. All three appeals reviewed were argued on the grounds that communication with an undercover law enforcement officer portraying a minor was not a violation of the law because there was no actual minor involved. All three judgments were affirmed. In each case, the courts decided that although there was no actual minor victim, the defendant intended to entice a minor and therefore violated the statute."

That's the federal law and what little snippet of research there is regarding this in a document submitted to congress named Internet Crimes Against Children: A Matrix and Summary of Major Federal and Select State Case Law. It was published in 2009. Google is a beautiful thing.

You're right, I didn't know this for sure. Glad I do now.

For me, an accusation of this could destroy me.

@Sycon420 wrote

One question Loyid, do young drivers get their permits without knowing what the road signs mean in the first place? [...] Of course not.

This supports my argument, essentially. Young permittees do go through an educational process so that they know the rules of the road and the meaning of road signs before they are allowed to drive. I'm certain you were a student driver at one point. Only just similar to what I recommend here, albeit I am being less restrictive: We're not denying a permit to anyone, or making it a complicated bureaucratic process, just informing them that this is what lies ahead.

@Sycon420 wrote

Also I would like to point out starting that second part with "I agree with you. Give people the right to fail." makes everything you state afterward fairly close to hypocritical. Not quite but almost.

This, you are citing out of context, without consideration to my full position. Continue:

@Sycon420 wrote

"18 U.S.C. § 1470: Transfer of obscene material to minors [...] For me, an accusation of this could destroy me.

And, in the end you come full circle back to my argument. This is about protecting the guild, as well as myself, but also establishing a healthy environment for this sort of content. I am no where near advocating "bubble wrap", I cannot convey enough to you how passionately I am against that in philosophy. Again, this sort of nonsense is why I got into law, as I said. But just because you fight fires, doesn't mean you paint you soak your clothes in gasoline. Put the fire out first. We have to deal with reality.

My philosophy is entirely different. My next point, was that even with those dangers, to my entire career. Just the thing I worked for my entire life, nothing huge. Is that I make requests that don't need to be followed. I'm not going to demand people to color code things like it is the back of a modern computer for me.

I have this thing called common sense. I feel disclaimers are pushing it. So I'm submitting my argument.

In the same turn I'm also not going to be told I'm wrong by someone that can't Google four keywords and click the first link from the actual government regarding it. *Shrugs* I'm a little bit prideful, sue me.

According to 18 U.S.C. § 1470, using the mail or any means of interstate or foreign
commerce to knowingly or unknowingly transfer obscene material to an individual under the age of 16 is punishable by not more than 10 years of imprisonment and a fine, or both.

A review of federal appeals cases found three statutory challenges to convictions or
indictments under this section of the code. All three appeals reviewed were argued on the grounds that communication with an undercover law enforcement officer portraying a minor was not a violation of the law because there was no actual minor involved. All three judgments were affirmed. In each case, the courts decided that although there was no actual minor victim, the defendant intended to entice a minor and therefore violated the statute."

Pointing out that in these cases, the individuals responsible for providing the material were charged, not an entire community. Your post was misleading in that you made it sound as if the entire community would be held responsible, but you do point out something that I believe was overlooked in the decision concerning ERP material. We will have to either find a new location for it, separate from the guild forums, or make the guild a mature (18+ only) guild in order to avoid such complications. As is, if a child wanders onto our site and their parents see them reading the ERP material then the site owner as well as the posters could be held responsible.

This thread has got a little heated - calm it down or it will be closed and I dont want to see that. Everyone has a right in this, and it is good for people to feel free to disagree and not feel like they have to label yourself a "prude" because you choose to live by a set of values. I applaud that and I personally never treat anyone as a prude for whatever their beliefs. I am glad the world is a colourful one with plenty of room to agree/to disagree and be friendly and peaceful about it.

All sides of this argument are completely valid. (Especially the part about labels - *waves placard* KILL STUPID NOW!)

NOTE: The justice/political/world system is forked, so please don't quote anymore of that stuff though. That starts to go down the road of Political debate which is not allowed here on these forums or in GC... k? :D

It comes back to Wiki cant be sued, Google cant be sued there is a case right there for being a joke of a law in the first place.

As for jobs being affected that is a concern, but I would be surprised if you could even know who I am IRL let alone what I do in my personal recreation time... then prove the information is real in the first place. I have been teaching my daughter about false profiles and stuff.

Again for those that may have skipped it.

Those threads in question will be:-

1. Labeled MA18+
2. Only view-able by approved members
3. Graphical material can still be posted within *SPOILER* so it is hidden.
4. In-game is kept in PC (be careful though because that could be a minor you are RPing with)

We are adults and should take every step possible to protect the innocent - not our own asses. But that also I direct at their parents and I lay accountability solely in their laps.

This argument works, simply for the fact that this is the internet and we cannot force members to show any form of id to prove their age. ESO is rated M, meaning the "required" age is 17 and the age specified in the quote by Sycon is 16, we as a guild or forum cannot be held responsible for the actions of underage members who pretend they are 17 when we have no means of proving otherwise. I've messaged Ri'Sari about it, but he's offline so it'll probably be tomorrow before I hear but, but I want to throw this idea out.

My issue with ERP is not the ERP itself, but the image given to prospective members when they look at our forums. I do not want to hide ERP threads, as I don't want members to join and then see them, then think we were hiding these posts, but I don't want them to look at our RP forum and see that ERP is dominating the forum so they get the idea that most of our RP is ERP. The simplest solution I can think of to this issue is to recycle ERP threads for instances where a couple wishes to have a second or third encounter. Sumar and Sylva, for instance, have two seperate threads in the RP forum for ERPs. Instead of starting a new thread for each event, I propose we recycle threads, use the same thread for each encounter, but make a page break type post after each event which opens the scene for the next event. It would be easy enough to make a table of contents post with links to each page of that thread where a scene begins so readers can jump to whichever event they wish to read, and this would minimize the number of NSFW stickers in the RP forum.

Holy crap. I can't leave you guys alone for a second. This conversation has gone wildly outside the scope of the thread.

Because of this please don't reply unless you are replying to me. We'll keep it moderated for now. This is to keep things on topic. We're talking about the small picture here, adult content and what it means to the guild. Let's leave the big picture, wider world stuff for another time, yeah? :P

Let's get back on topic and break it down.

ERP on the forums.
These threads will be clearly labeled and posts that are mature will be hidden. Let's treat that topic as resolved. If you have more to add about ERP on the forums then please talk to an officer or contact me directly.

Adult content in the game.
The game as an ERSB rating of Mature +17 (link). "Content is generally suitable for ages 17 and up." The is no restriction on minors playing the game.

The ESO Code of Conduct. Have a read, if you're interested.

J'sarr's thoughts.
I get it, guys 'n girls. ERP is fun and interesting. It's here to stay and that's great. But please be mindful of the issues it can cause. The last thing I want to see is the guild I founded to devolve into finding RP reason to ERP. It's a long way from that right now, but I've seen it happen in UO, SWG and EQII. It's not good for RP guilds.

I'm glad we've had a strong response to this topic. From now on, please keep replies on topic and directed at one of my posts.

J'sarr wrote

The last thing I want to see is the guild I founded we founded to devolve into finding RP reason to ERP.

image no longer hosted — http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-W1h79ABG7lw/UolYwPQ_WnI/AAAAAAAAAIM/fbtwi_VLvrU/s1600/Happy+Cat.jpg[/img]

Ri'sari agrees and loves you all. He promises.

J'sarr wrote

It appears to J'sarr that sexually based roleplay is on the rise, so to speak, in our guild. So this one thinks it's about time we had "the talk". ;-)

For the purpose of this discussion we will refer to forum based roleplay and in game roleplay. Guild chat is off limits to adult content and will remain that way.

I would like to hear the guild's thoughts on adult content in the guild. Let's hear your opinion.

Things to consider:

• Adult themed roleplay on the forums.

I believe it's fine so long as it's labeled and that as noted above in the thread, clearly labeling it does not violate state or federal law as cited as the label in and of itself implies no intent to transfer sexual content to a minor beneath the age of 16, bla bla bla, legaleze, anger, butthurt etc.

Adult roleplay in the game.

This is a little more sketchy because of two things. The first thing is that it's too easy for someone to walk in on you. The second is that I've seen enough of this in other games and I think that it's kind of not fun to read and a little bit cheap, but that's just my personal opinion. It's also much too easy to mis-send something.

Private adult roleplay that is refereed to publicly/guild chat (i.e. you telling people you're screwing around, etc).

I'm all for it. Heak, even people who don't ERP do this, and I think it enhances realism just a tad.

The general atmosphere created by suggestive roleplay.

As you mentioned, the impact is minimal at present. I would, if I were you, set a date some time in the future and periodically re-consider this, if it continues to bear on your mind.

Consideration for minors in the guild.

If a Minor within the guild is not smart enough to read warning labels I frankly don't give a damn. The labels are there, the labels are (as noted above in the very-fine US Government bullshit) sufficient to indicate no intent to traffic, and I do not see any self-avowed minors arguing in this thread which, to me, indicates that the minor may be an illusionary or simply hypothetical demographic at this point.

Thank you.

J'sarr wrote

Holy crap. I can't leave you guys alone for a second. This conversation has gone wildly outside the scope of the thread.

Because of this please don't reply unless you are replying to me. We'll keep it moderated for now. This is to keep things on topic. We're talking about the small picture here, adult content and what it means to the guild. Let's leave the big picture, wider world stuff for another time, yeah? :P

Let's get back on topic and break it down.

Hooooray, breaking it down!

J'sarr wrote

Adult content in the game.
The game as an ERSB rating of Mature +17 (link). "Content is generally suitable for ages 17 and up." The is no restriction on minors playing the game.

The ESO Code of Conduct. Have a read, if you're interested.

So, ok, I have two big points I'd like to make here.

1. I personally have no problem with some adult themed roleplay from time to time. However, I'd like to further define what I mean by that because as of last night, there was roleplay that I did have a problem with that does fall into adult themes.

I'm fine with some lovey-dovey RP from time to time. Heck, I'm fine with some more adult/sexually oriented roleplay. It's not my bag, but I appreciate that some would like to do some plotlines that may include that. Well integrated adult content can really add a great amount of depth to a plot.

However, what I'm not a fan of was something I did witness last night. Not going to name names, but there was a character that literally berated mine with sexual innuendo and mutilation the SECOND they met me. Innuendo? Fine. Mutilation? No. Just a big no. To their credit, I asked for it to stop and it did. But that's the type of adult content that I do not like -- gore for gore's sake or gore that's somewhat sexually driven. Threatening to "stick a dagger in 'em" is one thing... threatening to remove entire, gender-related bits of a person for no reason isn't.


2. As someone who makes a living in the online games industry, sexual roleplay in open chat is usually a big no-go. GMs will usually crack down on that if they see it reported. In ZOS's TOS, this is covered by the line: "Any other names, text or chat that ZeniMax considers offensive is also in violation of the Agreement including the Code of Conduct."

That said, if we continue down this road and someone wants to know more about their policies, I have former colleagues who work there in positions who would know the answer to this. I'd be happy to ask them informally.

J'sarr wrote

J'sarr's thoughts.
I get it, guys 'n girls. ERP is fun and interesting. It's here to stay and that's great. But please be mindful of the issues it can cause. The last thing I want to see is the guild I founded to devolve into finding RP reason to ERP. It's a long way from that right now, but I've seen it happen in UO, SWG and EQII. It's not good for RP guilds.

I'd like to second this. As an old raid leader/guild officer from a World of Warcraft RP guild that was Blue Skooma's size, ERP did cause problems for us. Some members really wanted to do it, and ended up making plotlines that were solely devoted to just ERP. What started off as a somewhat noble venture that wanted to bring some real levels of gravitas to roleplay turned into pretty much nothing better than private porn. :( Very sad panda. :(

My 2 gold, at least.

We're talking about the small picture here, adult content and what it means to the guild.

The topic is "Adult Content in Blue Skooma" isn't it? The title, nor the OP say anything about this being "the small picture", and honestly, very few good things ever come out of looking only at the small picture, especially when it comes to a society like a guild that is trying to build and grow. If you only look at the small picture in subjects like this, 9/10 you're going to regret it and I would rather not see that.

As I've said before, I do not mind ERP in the guild, my concern is not that it exists in the guild. As is, I'm happy with the way it is being handled, with disclaimers and spoiler posts, I believe this is adequate control in regards to being responsible about it. Looking at the small picture, this is fine, but looking at the big picture (oh, I know, how dare I >. >))...

With ERP being confined primarily to the forums, while RP occurs primarily in game, when prospective players look at our forums they do not see RP threads popping up left and right. Since most of the RP in the guild occurs in game, the Forum RP is not exactly exploding with forum RP while ERP is confined to either private chat or Forum RP, which means that ERP in the forums will grow faster than RP threads. We can overlook this for the sake of allowing those who want to ERP to do so, but you guys really don't seem to be thinking about how this is going to look for prospective members in general, your focus seems to be more on justifying ERP and minors who might happen upon the ERP.

When a prospective member looks at our forums to see what kind of RP we do before they join, what do you think they'll be thinking when they see that ERP in the Forum RP is growing so much faster than regular RP threads? They're not going to think "oh, they just ERP here so they dont' get into trouble in game", or "oh, they must do most of their non ERP in game and that's why RP is not flourishing in the forums.". Prospective members looking at the forums will think "Oh... look at all the ERP these guys do. They've been a guild for months and only have six non ERP threads..."

Again, and repeating myself here because it feels like everytime someone reads my post they seem to think I'm making a stand against ERP and then ignore what I'm trying to point out. I am not standing against ERP, I'm not trying to stop people from doing it. My primary concern is keeping the guild image a good one in the eyes of prospective members. You can quote all you want about how it's their responsibility to know what they are getting into, but quoting this is not helping in any regard as to giving the guild a good reputation so more people will want to join. To be honest, all you're saying by quoting this is "I do what I want, 'if you don't like it go away." and that is not the message you want to send when trying to recruit for an RP guild.

*Edit

I wanted to add in that minimizing the number of ERP posts in the forums is the goal behind my suggestion about recycling threads. I'm not at all trying to eliminate them, I'm just trying to keep the number of threads minimal so when prospective members look at the Forum Rp they don't open up to find twenty ERP threads because each couple has multiple threads.

So there are two ERP considerations being discussed here -

1. In-game ERP
2. Forum ERP

For me In game is the MOST difficult and fraught with danger - How old is the person? What is the REAL motive behind the ERP? That is on a personal level. On a broader level if it should NEVER be something that happens in any form/place/way that makes another player uncomfortable. NO means NO! If you are told no, go auhway! Simple. You cannot complain because it happens, it will. I play a guy because it happens way less now - not at all. He is the one doing the creeping :roll: *facepalm*



Forum ERP is way better for me because it is a medium with more distance between players, it is less intense you have time to think between moves (so feels like playing chess) I also personally think it is the safest and most respectful in all aspects. No-one has to read it! I cannot put it simpler.

The point about the labels - thread headings deterring people away has been addressed, I think at least for now. In truth, someone will be deterred in this.

Ban forum ERP.? Other people who like to read it and have no problem now miss out, and so do the people enjoying the process of doing it. So maybe those people leave and find guilds more conductive to this type of thing, maybe an 18+ guild. I have been in these before because I don't want to deal with the little shits you often get in the underage group. Everything in GC suddenly becomes less of an issue if you are reasonably assured their are only adults in the guild.

Allow forum ERP ? & .... what? Some people are unhappy? How many? I haven't seen many so far.

You cannot ban Ingame ERP effectively and it wouldn't be right to, I dont think. What people do in private is their own business.
Banning Forum ERP or not is perhaps the question. It has been expressed by the GM that is not what he wants.

So the purpose of this is to find a common ground, but it really comes down to compromise.

I found out the other night this thread has been started because of a single comment in GC, a wrong perception on the part of a player thought something was happening and it wasnt. However this was the spark.

So why not start discussing rules - guidelines for this kind of thing and perhaps the Officers, GM and those with a strong concern in this can formulate a policy perhaps that keeps thing in an area that keeps as many as possible happy. Not all are going to be, that is just life.

I'll start:

(Assuming no one wants ERP totally banned from guild - I have not seen this)

1. Never in Guild Chat - only in Private Chat (In-game ERP)
2. Forum ERP - Always NSFW labels - hidden MA18+ at FADE-TO-BLACK points (Spoiler function) for writing within this to further protect readers. Only view able by site members.

Questions ...

1 Ban or Not?
2. Add/subtract from my suggestions

/go

LOL

I will state this all again one more time haha.

Forums.
No one is banning shit. Never was going to happen and never will while I have anything to do with it.

ERP now has it's own separate forum and NSFW tags. I've also made it so posts in that forum don't show up in the "Latest Threads". That should hopefully solve the issues you're talking about Ma'Zha. Thank's for raising that. :)

If you have anything further dealing with adult content on the forums please contact me in private, or another officer. I think the processes we have in place now are enough.

Ri'sari wrote

J'sarr wrote

The last thing I want to see is the guild I founded we founded to devolve into finding RP reason to ERP.

I put that in there just for you. I knew you'd like it. ;-)

So it looks like it's a go for sexually explicit materials so long as it's kept under wraps and has a warning on the thread... I think... some people are going nuts.

However, from what I can see, this only applies to stories.

What about mature / adult artwork?

J'sarr wrote

I will state this all again one more time haha.

Forums.
No one is banning shit. Never was going to happen and never will while I have anything to do with it.

Tryynity wrote

You cannot ban Ingame ERP effectively and it wouldn't be right to, I dont think. What people do in private is their own business.
Banning Forum ERP or not is perhaps the question. It has been expressed by the GM that is not what he wants.

Jason Winters wrote

So it looks like it's a go for sexually explicit materials so long as it's kept under wraps and has a warning on the thread... I think... some people are going nuts.

However, from what I can see, this only applies to stories.

What about mature / adult artwork?

And another question is raised :roll:

Answer: I dont know - I guess same - put a label on it NSFW and use spoiler (Hidden) feature for added care and should be fine. But not sure, for sure.

J'sarr wrote

ERP now has it's own separate forum and NSFW tags. I've also made it so posts in that forum don't show up in the "Latest Threads". That should hopefully solve the issues you're talking about Ma'Zha. Thank's for raising that. :)

Ok, change of plan on that point. ERP threads will still be visible to visitors and the public in "Latest Threads", however you need to be a registered member to view the contents.

Jason Winters wrote

What about mature / adult artwork?

For sure, go for it. Just put it behind a spoiler or a link off site and let people know it's NSFW. :thumb: